When my wife is with a sex partner I am rarely if ever present..She "dates" on her own...She chooses her partners and they must ask her not me if they can bed her....I am wondering how many men are not present and how many women see sex partners without the husband being present...I have watched but she has told me this tends to inhibit her and since it is for her pleasure and really not mine neither of us want her to be inhibited. Would be interested in hearing from others on this subject..
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Tue, December 20, 2005 - 6:33 PMPresent.
The marriage is a D/s relationship, and he owns her. From time to time he may reward her service with an encounter with one or more strangers. He makes appropriate arrangements and sticks around to make sure she's enjoying a safe and pleasant reward.
She eventually expressed a strong preference for this sort of arrangement anyway. She is much more comfortable with him picking partners for her, and would not feel safe if he weren't around.
Because none of the above reasons apply to the husband, the wife may or may not be present when he's playing with one or more third parties... or at least that's the theory. In actual practice she is very likely to be present, if only because he generally agrees with "the more, the merrier."
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 7:50 AMMine is often present, but not always. Sometimes he joins in, sometimes he's just in the same place, and sometimes we go on play dates alone. Lately, I've been missing the times when we used to make love with the same person, and so is he; it just doesn't seem to be manifesting that way right now.
I love watching him, most of the time, and he loves watching me. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 1:07 PMMy wife and I are always together so far. It does not seem to inhibit her and I don't think she inhibits me.
She has told me that I could find a girlfriend if I wanted but so far neither the desire nor the opportunity has presented itself.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 3:46 PMInteresting comments, It has been my experience that when husbands have to be around to "protect her" that is a substitue word for he has to be in control....Im glad one poster is not inhibited and neither is the wife, and sometimes I wish that mine was not inhibited although I think its fine that she sees others alone.....would be interested in hearing some more comments...thanks to those who posted your input was interesting, informative and valuable... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 4:13 PMI would never judge, or make assumptions, about how others handle this sort of thing, but I know that I can't stand the idea of allowing my fears to inform all my decisions, or the decisions of my partner, regarding our hearts and our bodies.
If I have respect for my own romantic and sexual existence, I have to give his the same amount of respect. If I do what's fair for me, he gets to do what's fair for him. I can't live any other way, even if its scary or uncomfortable at times. He gets the same rights I do, and the same responsibilites.
The fear is understandable, but I need to find my own solutions. My freedom, and his, are too important to me to drop them because I'm too scared for him to be with someone else. So, I examine, let go, let him know what's up, and move on to the next thing. He's not my Daddy, he's my partner. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, December 22, 2005 - 12:45 PMTeresa, you make a very astute observation, and from what I can tell, one that seems to have had a lot of thought behind it. It would seem that even when you may have a fear, you evaluate all your choice and take action based on your best analysis of any given situation. Life is not witout risk but you seem to have an excellent approach to risk management. Again thanks for you contribution.... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, December 22, 2005 - 2:03 PMThankyou, jim!
I speak from experience, some good some bad, but I think it started when I was in the only abusive relationship of my life, many years ago, with an extremely jealous young man. I became convinced, at that point, that jealousy and love cancelld each other out.
The Ethical Slut helped me to verbally acknowledge what I had already figured out about emotional responsiblity.
It's all so interesting! And so much better to know if we are having alternative relationships because we want to, or because we feel pressured to! -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Fri, December 23, 2005 - 5:07 AMTeresa your statement about "alternative relationships because we want to or because we feel pressured to!" is right on. I know that if she chooses her sex partner on her own and she dates him on her own and she has sex with him and Im not watching and she doesnt tell me "all the details" only that she did him, them for sure I know that she wanted to and was not pressured to.......you hit the nail on the head with that one.....
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 6:26 PMForgive me for veering slightly off topic, but I'd like to nitpick for a moment.
"It has been my experience that when husbands have to be around to 'protect her' that is a substitue word for he has to be in control...."
This would appear to be in reply to my post, so I'd like to clarify things a bit.
A D/s relationship is all about one party having control, that is exactly what it is. It exists because that is what the parties concerned have chosen to do. It does not exist because of some sort of dysfunctional interdependency where one party "has" to be in control of the other. It may not be to your taste, but that does not make it a symptom of some sort of defect of personality or relationship.
That said, concern for safety can be a perfectly legitimate and distinct issue. Precisely because control is an extremely clear and open aspect of the relationship, there would be no motive at all for trying to hide it under a euphemism. Of course the wife is under the husband's control!
Let me ask you this... suppose you were a woman who had a fantasy about being stripped, bound, blindfolded, and used by strangers. How would you feel if your husband tied you into a sling in a dark corner of some sex club and just walked away? Safe and comfortable? Or would you wonder if you were being banged bareback by a series of disgusting crackheads who would leave you with every sexually transmitted virus known to man?
Sometimes "safety" just means "safety." -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, December 22, 2005 - 12:51 PMI do not know your name but yes my comment was directed in reply to your post and I sensed your response to my response was somewhat defensive...It need not be as I was not being critical of you...Far from it...you seem to be engaged in mutualy agreeable d/s relationship as such I would expect you to be present. For you it is understandable that this is a control issue.....my comment although in response to your statement was meant that as a general rule for couples not involved in an acknowledged d/s relationship the husband excercises control by being present but does so under the guise that he is there for her protection. At least with those that I have met, this "guise" is there because I sense some real jealousy issues.......I'm attempting to find out if my senses and thoughts are based on fact or if they are based on my perceptions......any one else care to comment....believe me I'm not trying to be judgemental here by making observations on behaviors...they are merely my observations..... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, December 22, 2005 - 7:20 PMAs for us, we have no idea. Agreements between couples (let alone the motivations for those agreements) can be very complex, and we treat them as essentially private. We don't consider jealousy or any other feelings to be wrong per se, so we haven't really cared one way or the other. Some couples may not even be sure themselves why they are comfortable with a given rule, just that they are. It gets to be like trying to sort out the polyish swingers from the swingingish polys. So we just do our best to understand what rules may apply, and accept or decline accordingly. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, December 22, 2005 - 7:32 PMOh, I don't think any feelings are "wrong", but some can be dangerous to give in to, tot he point where they make our decisiouns that should probably be thought through more thouroughly.
Feelings are like...the greeeting card your head gives you when something is going on.
Okay, I must be tired, that was a weird analogy! -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, December 22, 2005 - 7:53 PMLet me say this. I wanted to go into swinging for years before we did it. My wife did not like the idea at the time. I did not push her, I did not 'wear her down'. When she finally agreed I made damn sure that it was really something she wanted.
The reason is that I don't believe in controlling my partner in a non-D/s relationship. D/s is a choice of both parties. If the parties are equal then consideration for each other and respect for each other's wants and needs must be considered. A partnership is about trust and respect and mutual obligations and needs. Not "who's the boss?"
Even in D/s the power-exchange runs both ways. The sub gives up something s/he _wants_ to give up in one area to get something in another. No matter what it looks like from the outside.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Fri, April 21, 2006 - 11:05 AMI like you answer her simply because I have never really been able to define my relationship with my husband... I allow him to be in control and my time with other women is always with him and with women no men... Made me feel better today.. Thank you so much.. So many people (especially my family) have a problem with my relationship becuase I am strongwilled, and can be quite a bully and I let this little husband of mine control me.....It actually gives me a sense of peace that I haev never had before...
So For the rest of the post my husband is always present... And i am always present for him...We enjoy it mutually this way....
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sat, December 24, 2005 - 7:05 PMI have only had experiences with two men outside of my marriage. I would not want my husband there because it would inhibit me. I don't want to be around when he's with his girlfriend, although I know he would prefer that we all play together. For us though, we have an open marriage. It's not a swinger kind of thing where we're looking for casual sexual encounters with strangers. If we have a friend and would like to pursue the relationship further, we feel free to do so. So safety isn't really an issue since we're fooling around with people we've known for quite awhile.
I like that my husband is okay with me playing around on my own. He would prefer that it were otherwise, but he respects my feelings, wanting me to enjoy life as much as possible and knowing that I would never put myself in a dangerous situation. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 1:06 AMJim, from what I'm gathering... Your wife chooses, dates, and has sex with other partners without your consent or sometimes without your knowledge?.. When you try to include yourself in this polysexual relationship, she denies you this... Furthermore, you choose to stay inside the relationship despite what your wife is allowed to do....
Now, keep in mind I'm not the jealous type and that I have been involved with quite a few alternative style relationships... Including swinging, bi/heterosexual, and polyamorous relationships... But what I have to say may hurt... What you have is a "cheating wife"... The only difference is that you are aware that it is happening....
Please dont' take this the wrong way... Because like I mentioned earlier, I've been involved with multiple partner relationships and I fully agree that they work for some people... But what I see here is a lack or definative rules and boundaries or your lack of enforcing the rules... And believe me, that's rule #1 with these sort of relationships - setting the rules and enforcing them....
This could well indeed be your problem... As mentioned before, it seems like she desires a D/s relationship in which you should be (as her husband) the dominant... By setting these rules and enforcing them, you will be asserting yourself and showing some dominance in this relationship... If this jepordizes your relationship (as it very well could) then it obvious that she was just trying to "have her cake and eat it, too."
Buy as it stands now, it sounds like she's just cheating with your consent... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 8:14 AMWhere did you get the idea Digital that I dont know about what she is doing...I know full well what she is doing and she does so with my full approval and blessings....I do not choose who she has sex with....She makes those choices herself...Many into these alternative lifestyle have the husband do all the choosing....To each their own I suppose but its not my body it is hers and she has the absolute right to determine who getst to use it and how they get to use it...I married her, I did not buy her as a piece of property....and no she is not a cheating wife because I know of her activities......dont have any idea how you arrived at your conclusions.......but perhaps this clears it for you -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, August 6, 2006 - 10:46 PMTotally agreed, Jim. It's not cheating if you agree and totally support her behavior. In many marriages this lifestyle is very fulfilling. In my case my wife would find it very uncomfortable to have me around while she is having sex with one of her lovers. She feels she could not possibly let go and enjoy herself completely and strange as it may seem to some folks, I respect that and support her position.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 11:47 AM"cheating with consent... "
Isn't this an oxymoron? -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 4:07 PMAl your right cheating with consent is an oxymoron that is why what my wife does is not cheating.....How can something be cheating when no one is being deceived......I know what she is doing (well at least I can imagine it anyway) Like Erika if I had a problem with her seeing anyone Iam sure she would stop and like Erika if my wife wanted to leave me for a lover, I would not stand in her way....I understand totaly what Erika says because I too feel the same way.....My wife chooses to stay with me because it is her choice and she has her freedom......its the same in any relationship but in ours no one gets their feelings hurt...One thing I told her is that if we play with fire Im not afraid of being burned...having other relationships is the same as playing with fire, and if I were afraid of being burned I would not give her the matches....I hope the analogy makes sense.... I can have my girlfriends too but the pleasure comes from her seeing other men and I find I dont need to keep score or even things up...Like you Erika my wife says that the fantasy or the flirting can be satisfying too....so yes while its girls I understand where you are coming from....thanks to all for their contributions.....any more? -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 7:38 PMI guess I could have appropriated my words differently..
My apologies... I was under the impression that although you knew that she was with others (part of being in an open relationship)... That you had no idea when, how, or with whom... Hence the deception...Even in your most recent replies you say that you "can imagine" what she's doing which still leads me to believe that you have little knowledge of what she's doing or who she's with only the idea that she is...
Cheating with consent is not an oxymoron... It's more of an acceptance that your lover/spouse/mate is going to do what they want when the wanna do it and you choose to be ambiguous to it... Now if that works for you, by all means... Keep it going, but I've seen many relationships fail (my own included) because of this lack of communication...
Again, I say if it works for you then fine... Just throwing out the warning... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Mon, December 26, 2005 - 8:46 AMNo need for a warning...alternative marriages are just that alternative...we do not adhere to the "rules" that to be open I have to know everything....believe me there is an erotic quality to not knowing the intimate details.....I have even driven her to a date with a lover.....and waited nearby.....if she chooses to tell me the details she does, if she doesnt want too she doesnt.....I drove her because it was late at night and she had to go to a city she was not familar with and she asked me too because I knew the area very well......nothing more nothing less....and by the way there is no ds in our relationship at all........ -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Mon, December 26, 2005 - 3:12 PMNo problem Jim... Like it was mentioned we are quite a diverse group... I believe that while sex and amorous feelings can easily change, as well as things like responsibilties and roles in the relationship. But things like communication and honesty. These are values that forge a relationship.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sat, July 1, 2006 - 1:32 AMal wrote:
"cheating with consent... "
Isn't this an oxymoron?
Actually, it's not. It's quite possible for a partner to have extra-marital/positional relations without thier formal partner even being aware. What many couples think is that just because they tell thier formal partner that they are involved with another that it's okay. This is untrue. Having an "open relationship" is okay but it's the responsibilty of each to let them know that they are also involved with others. Sure, you many know that your partner is sleeping with somebody else and they may have enve told you, but do you know who the other is? Even in polyamorous relationships, there is a primary. It's the responsibilty of each ether to communicate. Tjos os wjere tje cheating happens.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 8:18 AMErika. your marriage sounds much like mine....Did I understand you saying that your husband would rather you did not take on outside lovers or did you mean he would rather be present? I find it works much better for us for my wife to have her partners to herself for the same reasons you mentioned... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 2:19 PMMy husband is perfectly okay with me dating others, and has encouraged my exploration of additional relationships. He's sort of an existentialist and thinks we should enjoy life to the fullest while we're here. He is not jealous at all because we have a very strong relationship and there is no question that we want to remain together. We're not looking for replacements or anything like that.
He is just very sexually open and playful and would have a lot more fun if he was playing together with me and my other partner(s). I'm just not that sexually comfortable I suppose. My reason for wanting to have an open marriage has more to do with the "butterflies in the stomach" feeling that you get when flirting with someone new than with the act of sex itself. Sometimes just the fantasy is enough for me and I don't always feel the need to follow through with physical action. I can totally get turned on by sexy emails. This is probably a typical girly emotional thing. Most of us women (not all of course) don't feel the same about sex as men do and sometimes it can be hard to communicate our feelings about it to the opposite sex in a way they can understand.
I once read a story (probably in the book, Open Marriage) about a married woman who fell in love with another man. The other man demanded that she leave her husband and run away with him. Her husband said that if she wished to go, then it was her decision. She chose to stay with her husband because he gave her the freedom to decide her life, whereas the lover demanded that she do what he asked of her. Since beginning on the path of our open marriage, my feelings for my husband are stronger than ever. It sort of feels like a second honeymoon that continues nearly every day. I truly feel the selflessness of his love and I can't ever imagine not wanting to be with him. Sex and conversation is much hotter with each other now and we have a lot more fantasy material. Our marriage isn't about domianance/submissiveness (although I completely respect anyone's decision to maintain that particular lifestyle). We are equal partners. It took me about 7 years to figure that out though.
~Erika -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 2:24 PMAlong the lines of the equal partnership explanation....my husband also has a girlfriend and I am not present when he fools around with her, by my choice. If I had a problem with his relationship with her, he would end it immediately, and I would accord him the same respect. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 7:15 PMJimm, erika, et al
When two people agree to agree and embark on a life of self fullfilment, to love as many people they can learn how to love, then its all good. Its a journey into parts of love and life none imagine until it becomes their journey. I applaud all of you for taking this path, your rewards will be many and great. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Mon, December 26, 2005 - 2:28 PMI just wanted to say that I appreciated how this thread has shown us to be a pretty diverse group, which is, I think, a good thing. We aren't just "alternative" to the mainstream, but to each other as well, which makes me believe that we have each put a lot of independant thought into the way our marriages work. And I'm really fond of independant thought. ;-) -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Tue, December 27, 2005 - 7:31 PMi'm usually not around when my wife is with other guys.......so I get to hear about it in the recap. :)
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Thu, April 20, 2006 - 10:52 AMWe seem to find that it works best if the husband is present. It gives her a sense of security that if the lover gets out of hand the husband is there to step in. It also allows the husband to see first hand what is happening which helps to make him feel involved and causes less jealousy issues. We have played seperately a few times and find that husband present, even if he's just in the next room, seems to work best for us... -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Fri, April 21, 2006 - 8:23 AMMy husband has never been present for my lovemaking/fucking another male lover, save twice recently when my lover was on the phone with us, which was really hot, BTW.
It's my call. totally. I want him-hubby to "approve," but ultimately, I do what I want in that arena. My Lover and I have a different dynamic. I would very much like him to be there for meetings with other men, but then again, my Lover and I have a relationship that fits that sort of syenario, whereas my husband and I have a completely different-natured relationship. I have a new love in the desert who I will be visiting without my present Lover OR my husband! But in general, I could see being with non-husband lovers alone, and being with other-lover lovers, with my Lover. Ha! Did I get anybody REALLY confused?! : ) -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Fri, April 21, 2006 - 1:06 PM> It's my call. totally. I want him-hubby to "approve," but ultimately, I do what I want in that arena.
Exactly!
We do it (now!) the same way - most of all because "it's HER call". I want HER to enjoy the pleasure to have sex with her lover(s) as much as possible - and she does enjoy it much more when making love/fucking with another man alone, in full intimacy.
We tried it with me watching, participating and just listening - but finally all this wasn't really what we wanted. For both of us! It was good sex, but not more.
Sometimes you don't know exactly what works best for both of you - so you may explore possibilities. We are all different - and so are our desires. But one basic rule always applies:
as long your communication is honest, respectful and clear and you respect the other's positions - all you are doing is right.
I see it the same way like Jim:
she is not my property, but she is "my" love. My love to her just grows when I know she does enjoy HER life - and I'm happy to be the man on her side who enjoys every single moment with her (and we have great sex too, btw) and who derives his pleasure from hers (I read this in another tribe and found this stamement fitting perfectly for me). She does what she wants - and for a man who loves her I want exactly this.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, April 30, 2006 - 8:46 AMMy husband is always present because that's what pleases me. -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, April 30, 2006 - 9:23 AMSometimes it's better to have him there, or for me to be there, if we're both participating in some way, and other times, its better not to. If either one of us isn't interested in the other's lover, then we just make dates. The dates are usually nice; one gets to have fun, the other gets to have alone time.
As far as being in love is concerned, my sweetie wants only to be that intimate with a woman who also loves me; its less trouble for him, and makes for less communication issues. He has a hard time relating conversations/arguments he has with other women that are significant, and he always feels pressured to juggle too much when things are very seperate. If I'm in love with someone else, he doesn't have a problem if they aren't in love with him. It only matters that he gets along with the other lover and that they enjoy and trust eachother.
Idealy, he just wants us both to be crazy about the same person, but when it comes to just playing, its different.
Just recently, we took a nice, refreshing break from being with other people in order to spend some quality time together to allow us to regain our interest in eachother sexually (we were getting too scattered), and to re-evaluate our goals. It's been fantastic! Now we're more clear about what we want long-term, and know more our strengths and weaknesses as a couple and as individuals. Even the difficult stuff has been so interesting!
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Sun, July 2, 2006 - 10:32 PMOriginally....several years ago when we started this journey we only played
with partners in the same rooms. However now, I have a lover and he and
I have dates without our spouses present. It has been fantastic to get to
know this man privately, and develop this phenomenal relationship. The
opportunity has opened up a world of feelings and a whole side of intimacy
we had not seen in our playing before. Everything is open, no secrets,
and each step of the way we've talked through iit. It has been really
wonderful actually.....
vixen -
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Mon, July 3, 2006 - 1:29 PMI always prefer to have my partner present when I am intimate with others, but sometimes it does not work out that way. I have a separate lover currently on a friends-with-benefits basis, he is entirely too hung up and set in his ways to consider group-anything so we are all friends together and occassionaly there is intimiacy without my partner. Sometimes I find women I want to share with that have no interest in men - so again, without the partner.
Over the past several years we have been with others more than apart with others.
He is always positive about my relationships with others and encourages me to follow my heart, but he will deny his own opportunities for outside relationships because he ONLY wants to be with me and whomever else would want to be with both of us. I have a desire for a larger intimate family, and felt that this tactic would best support a Group situation. After a couple years of monogamy-by-default I decided one of us would have to reach out and start building if we are to create anything larger than ourselves.
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Re: husband present? Not present?
Wed, December 20, 2006 - 5:56 PMIt's about 50-50 with us. I like being spontaneous and having quick sex with strangers, but I also like preparing an evening that promises high sexual energy. When he's present, he'll often just watch but will particiate at times. I will have him wait in the other room when I'm visiting a man, which creates an interesting tension for all concerned.
